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Get kids back into school... (From Stourbridge News)
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Get kids back into school...
9:00am Tuesday 5th May 2009
WHY are there always alot of children around Stourbridge, Merry Hill and places like these?
Most kids say they have teacher training days, some are in the middle of the week.
Also, why do schools let children go out at dinner times?
When I was growing up we had to stay at school until 3.50 no like today, most schools finish at 2.50-3.15.
No wonder kids leave and they cannot spell, write or read.
Also, in my childhood when we left, if you did not have a job you had to go in the army, navy, air force until you were 18, not like today just to roam around the High Street causing trouble.
Edith Smith Norton
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Your Say Your Stourbridge
Christine hoehne, Sandpoint, Idaho, USA says...
6:07pm Wed 6 May 09
So, he or she is hardly qualified to make a mockery of the letter from Ms. Smith.
I too, can say "back in my day", and believe me, that day was a whole lot healthier, as far as education was concerned.
Ms. Smith did not disparage the young people of today - she was speaking of the educational system, which has gone down the tubes - most specifically, since the 1970's, and "education reform".
What is the "whole picture?"
Children leaving school, illiterate;young people (and older people) binge drinking; rampant crime; gangs of youths scaring older folks to death.
No-one, including Ms Smith is saying that all youth is like this. Simply, back in our day(!)- which was nnot so long ago, 99% of children,and teenagers had respect for our elders, and for authority. We were healthier, obesity among chiildren was almost unheard of. We walked, played, read, did errands for our parents, and above all, we respected our teachers (not always liking them)and we "OBEYED THE RULES".
We produced a generation of hard-working people, able to provide for families, who were loyal to their country and had respect for each other.
Part of this came, because our parents, and our schools instilled in us a sense of responibilty.
If we left the school grounds for any reason during school hours - we had to have a really good reason. Our uniforms had to be complete, otherwise we were in trouble. We walked to school,walked back home for lunch,walked back again to school, and home at 4.00pm.
We did our homework, and only then could we do anything for ourselves.
"Villan" you know nothing. Instead of disparaging Ms. Smith, for the "back in my day" you should be agreeing with her, and if you have the energy, doing something about the situation.
Again, I know that many young people are as you describe them. But most of the problems the other's have, come from lack of discipline, which includes set school hours, five days a week, remaining in school grounds during that time, respecting their elders, and being willing to work, and not sponge on society.
Ms. Smith, you are absolutely right in what you say.
Christine hoehne, Sandpoint, Idaho, USA says...
6:15pm Wed 6 May 09
The UK has adopted the US system of "Teachers Work Days". It is ridiculous; The US education system, is on the whole, worse than the British sytem in this respect - far too much time off from school. However, I brought up two children, and instilled them with my values, and they are just fine. Er - the values from "back in my day".
The Villan , Stourbridge says...
7:38pm Wed 6 May 09
Ms Smith was disparaging to youth in general if you read her last paragraph correctly. She states they "roam around the High Street causing trouble", if "they" is not a sweeping statement then I don't know what is? Who are "they" and who do "they" represent? I am sure it is not all youth, which I had previously stated.
I hope your vitriolic comments made you feel better? You do not know me, hence, you are not in a position to act as judge and jury.
Peace and love.
Christine hoehne, Sandpoint, Idaho, USA says...
9:47pm Wed 6 May 09
I always find it amazing that someone with such closed views as those you indicate, purport to intelligence, simply because you have been educated to "degree level". If you believe in what you write, why do you use a pseudonym? (or are you just a dedicated Villa suporter?) It seems that you are unable to accept that there is truth in what people say,when their views oppose your own, and they are maybe of a different generation.
Ms. Smith was not being disparaging to youth in general in her last remarks - she did not say that all youth behaves in this fashion. However, if you have been in Stourbridge High Street in the late evening, you will see that there are many examples of behaviour amongst some young people that should be totally unaccetpable. I stayed at the Talbot, a few years ago and witnessed it first hand.
My "vitriolic" comments, as you put it, come not from a blanket assumption that all children and students are badly behaved. I stated quite clearly that many young people are as you describe. They are also not responsible for the education system.
However,well educated and thoughtful adults should at least be honest enough to acknowledge that there is a problem, even if they are powerless to change it.
You were also very disrespectfulto Mrs Smith, who is most likely your elder. Hardly the behaviour of a champion of the young.
The Villan , Stourbridge says...
9:31am Thu 7 May 09
I was not being disrespectful, I was just trying to give support to the local youth. They are continually being portrayed in the media negatively, when it is usually a minority of them, like all age groups, that may indeed cause trouble. A balanced, not closed view!
Just because I did not agree with Ms Smith's comments, did not mean my reply was disrespectful. After all, I thought the whole purpose of posting comments was to create a debate in a democratic society? I do not have to agree completely with the lady's comments, no matter how many times you post another comment.
Again, your opinion of Stourbridge, based upon your response, would relate to the evening time. If you had read this lady's letter, you would have realised she was commenting on education timetables in the day! Which, in the context of the original letter, means those comments are not relevant.
I was brought up correctly, I have great respect for my elders and believe manners are a must. Even today, I get strange looks when I open the doors for my peers, something which I do because I want to. After all, manners cost nothing and a please and thank you go a long way in my book. So don't you dare question my character, because you don't know me!
God Bless.
satchman, cradley heath says...
12:45pm Fri 8 May 09
Christine hoehne, Sandpoint, Idaho, USA says...
4:24pm Sat 9 May 09
I have a friend in the Stourbridge area who is a teacher. She is not even allowed to "chastise" a child for unreasonable behaviour. It is ludicrous.
What angered me about Villan's letter, was his defense of youth, but, at the same time, the supercilious tone of his reply to Ms. Smith, implying that because she was of another generation her views were totally outdated, and therefore worthless.
There is no point in arguing with villan. While I state specifically that there are many good, honest, hardworking young people, he refuses to admit that anything is wrong with today's system.
Something is very wrong. When you read the newspapers from the UK (and I do that, on-line every day) the amount of crime among the young, and the nature of that crime is a direct reflection on the lack of structure and discipline in today's society.
Our structure and discipline came from regular school attendance, our respect for our parents and our teachers, and our desire to be a decent adult. We had, materially, very little in our lives, and we had few material expecations as children. But we were healthy, and for the most part, happy. We belonged to Girl Guides and Boy Scouts. We played outside all summer and most of the winter!
And above all, we were taught respect, for our parents, our teachers, and for ourselves. It was a different world. I think it was a better world.
The Villan , Stourbridge says...
10:29am Sun 10 May 09
It would appear, yet again, that the interpretation or tone of each further comment, is the problem here?
I would also like to see the re-introduction of greater discipline in schools and indeed homes. My father was an RSM and discipline never did me any harm if used correctly. However, until the EU and our own Government accept that change is required as a deterent rather than a cure then one might as well bang one's head against a brick wall.
I hope this clarifies my position? I am not arrogant, I just like to see fair play.
Daisy Chayne, Cradley says...
12:50am Sat 16 May 09
Christine hoehne, Sandpoint, Idaho, USA says...
7:33pm Sat 16 May 09
You are way out of line. Since you too, do not live in Stourbridge, what gives you the right to tell me what I need to do, or not do? "Pen friend type of relationship"? I have as much right to comment, if not more, since I was born and brought up and was educated in Stourbridge. No one blames the kids for the present education system, but Ms. Smith had a valid point when she commented about the amount of free time that students have. And the lack of rules and discipline which enable some of them to be disruptive - again, this is not a blanket comment - how many times do I have to say that it is the system that is wrong, and not the majority of the students? What part of that statement do you and Villan not understand?
There was no need for Villan to be so disparaging to Ms. Smith,in his initial reply. He showed no respect for her point of view, what kind of example is that for today's youth?
"Children of today have to fit in with society..." That is your idea of raising a child? To allow him or her to "fit into society". So that they are clones of each other? So if society says it's OK, for example for teens to get pregnant, or take drugs (because that is what is happening in today's "society") then that is acceptable?
Daisy, I think you need a history lesson. At least in the 60's and 70's, in Stourbridge, life was pretty good, and relatively respectable. Many folks reading this will remember those times - not perfect, but a whole lot better than today.
As for knitting - it's one of my many hobbies - taught to me in domestic science classes at Stourbridge Girls High School!
ozpat, McLaren Vale says...
12:32am Sun 17 May 09
The Villan , Stourbridge says...
3:31pm Sun 17 May 09
Therefore, your last sentence is a contradiction and somewhat sarcastic!
I'm getting rather bored with this whole scenario and having to defend my position. If other ex-patriots want ot voice their opinion, then feel free. Frankly, I don't give two hoots what you think anymore... YOU DON'T LIVE HERE.
ozpat, McLaren Vale says...
9:48pm Sun 17 May 09
Interpretation indeed, correct I dont live "here" anymore, defensive I should say so at least three things we can agree on.. the two hoots you allegedly gave are all yours my friend to do with as you please and finally please don't feel that it's only the expat communities who'll disagree with you, i'm pretty sure you have plenty who still "THERE" who disagree with your standpoint. Yours respectfully Ozpat
Christine hoehne, Sandpoint, Idaho, USA says...
12:16am Mon 18 May 09
I, personally, do not know of any abused children, or abused animals, I do not know the people who benefit when I shop in a Charity shop, but I contribute willingly to these causes. You do not have to live in the Amazon rain forests to give money to save them!
The decline of the education system in Stourbridge came as a direct result of re-districting in the 1970's. King Edwards School, and the Girls High School ceased to exist. I visited my old school when I was last in Stourbridge. It had changed, radically, and not for the better.
Ms. Smith was absolutely right in her observations, and I do not believe that she meant her remarks to apply to all Stourbridge students.
viktor, Stourbridge says...
9:03pm Mon 18 May 09
Children in the UK must legally be in school every school day until they are 16 years old. If you see a child unaccompanied, wandering around a shopping centre during school hours, they are playing truant.
School hours: Many schools nowadays are extended schools which mean that they can look after children from around 8am to 5pm, often by offering clubs after the academic part of teh day finishes. This is to allow working parents or guardians time to pick them up later from school. The plan is for all children to be able to join an extended school by 2010.
Britain has a larger proportion of its children in prison than any other European country. The vast majority of children who are released from prison commit another offence within a year.
If you compare children's experience today (especially in the Black Country) with the way it was in the 1950's (or even the 1970's) thre are some clear differences:
1) Stourbridge and the Black Country are much less wealthy, relative to the rest of the country, than they once were. That is really what makes the older generation in this area feel like things have got worse. They have got worse, in a sense, but it's not the fault of the children.
2) Marriage rates in the UK have collapsed. More children are out of wedlock than in it, and unmarried couples are three times more likely to break up than married couples. The proportion of children with one parent (nearly always the father) missing from the household is higher than it used to be.
3) Many more mothers are working part or full-time.
4) Schools have sold off part or all of their grassy playgrounds, giving children less opportunity to play outside.
5) Car ownership has increased. This has made it much more difficult for children to play outside (in the street, the park) and has restricted their freedom of movement. In the 1970's it was common for primary school children to walk to school by themslves with no adult to accompany them, whereas today that is very unusual.
It was also common for children to travel long distances by bicycle by themselves; again that is unusal today.
6) Children watch much more TV then they used to, and spend much more time using computers and mobile phones.
So all in all I would agree that children are not as respectful or well-behaved as they once were, but I see this as primarily a result of the fact that parents today are more individualistic, more greedy and less community-spirited than they once were. In other words we should see the children as a mirror of what we, as adults, have become.
Christine hoehne, Sandpoint, Idaho, USA says...
4:52pm Tue 19 May 09
As a result of the area being less wealthy than in the past, presumably this has led to a breakdown in family life because of more mothers working, and not being there for the children after school.
However, the area where I lived was not wealthy, I often had to wear hand-me-downs as part of my school uniform, and my mother did work sporadically while I was growing up.
This was fairly normal for a lot of my friends, but it did not make us resentful, either of our parents, or fate that had made us less fortunate than some of the other girls in school. Envious, yes, and sometimes discontented. I suppose that our expectations were not so high.
My friends in Stourbridge, and others of my age around the world, are now watching our children bring up their children. So far, not one of them has had a problem. The generation that matured in the 60's raised their children with their values (among my acquaintances, at least)and by luck or good judgement those values have stuck.
As I said before, it is the whole system that is putting young people at risk. When there has been so much progress, in so many areas, society has regressed. And for what? More cars, nicer gardens, bigger houses, mobile phones? And for some, enough money to feed the family. It's a sad reflection on society.
The Villan , Stourbridge says...
9:39am Thu 21 May 09
Today I have been to Specsavers, luckily they had just what I wanted in stock. So now I can go round with my new "rose-tinted" glasses and everything looks so much better!!
Maybe it is time for other commentators to submit their views to their local councillors? That avenue would be the best place to put your comments.
ozpat, McLaren Vale says...
10:00pm Thu 21 May 09
Those rose tinted glasses will be helpful.... when have you booked the reality injection?
I just couldn't help myself!
The Villan , Stourbridge says...
2:04pm Fri 22 May 09
No need for the injection mate, I live in the real world and don't yearn for the past like some.
I just coiuldn't help myself,yet again!!
Christine hoehne, Sandpoint, Idaho, USA says...
6:51pm Sat 23 May 09
The education system in Stourbridge has deteriorated drastically, since the 1970's re-districting and the abolition of King Edward's and Stourbridge girls High.
Get it?
The Villan , Stourbridge says...
9:34am Sun 24 May 09
The children of today having to adapt to the current education system, this includes embracing change. ICT is now a core part of the curriculum, this is the real world. Adaptable school openining and finishing times are normal, this is the real world. Alas, a lack of discipline both in the classroom and at home, this is the real world.
I get it completely, do you?!
Let us all stop this continuing "comment saga" and agree to disagree. It is obvious neither of us will change our stance. Hence, my previous recommendation to write to your local councillor or Mayor if you want to voice you discord.
Daisy Chayne, Cradley says...
6:26pm Tue 2 Jun 09
Your opinions are yours and mine are mine. At least I do not get myself into a frenzied state and need to write essay upon essay on what is now becoming a boring excercise.
Astala vista.
Christine hoehne, Sandpoint, Idaho, USA says...
8:01am Wed 3 Jun 09
Why don't you read Viktor's comments - you will see some facts that are very relevant to this situation, i.e. what is happening to a lot of young people in the world of today.
As for my "frenzied essay's", well, I'm not sure what is "frenzied" about my posts, and they are certainly not essays. However, I could write an essay about the benefits of growing up in a simpler society, learning how to behave, having respect for adults, and even now, showing respect for people like Mrs Smith, who wrote the original letter on this subject.
You are correct - you have your opinion, and I have mine. However, three other people have agreed that there are problems now that didn't exist when there was discipline in schools and at home.
Daisy Chayne, Cradley says...
9:01pm Wed 3 Jun 09
Christine hoehne, Sandpoint, Idaho, USA says...
10:15pm Wed 3 Jun 09
Staying rational, and to the original point is productive. Name calling is not.
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The Villan , Stourbridge says...
2:48pm Tue 5 May 09
May I suggest when wanting to complain or comment you look at the whole picture.
This is now the 21st century, the "back in my day" is an old comment and no longer relevant.
The majority of young people are well-mannered, respect their elders and are law abiding. They are not responsible for education timetables or inset days.
By the way, you do realise Stourbridge is predominantly a "college town"? Hence, there will be young people at all times of the day!